The post discusses an automotive/car turn signal indicator circuit idea with a built-in load malfunction indicator, meaning an additional LED lamp fitted on the dashboard which would warn if any of the side indicators went bad or fused. The idea was researched and requested by Mr. Abu-Hafss.
The Circuit Concept
I have found a transistor-based flasher including a relay. I have transformed the schematic into LT Spice. You can find the files below:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20969135/Flasher%20-%20SOGO.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20969135/Flasher%20-%20SOGO.asc
PLEASE NOTE, THE POLARITY OF C2 IS REVERSED ON THE PCB BUT THE LT-SPICE SOFTWARE IS APPLYING POLARITY AS SHOWN.
Physically, the circuit oscillates when a Load is connected across the pin "C" of the relay and earth. If the load is less than 100 Ohms the oscillation is significantly fast. And if the load is say about 1K the frequency is normal.
However, I could not understand the circuit nor it is simulating in LT Spice. Could you please explain me how the circuit is sensing the change in resistance of the load. And could you please make the simulation work.
Please follow the links below for the photos.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20969135/Circuit%20-%20A.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20969135/Circuit%20-%20B.gif
OBJECTIVE:
To make a 555 based automotive turn signal flasher circuit which can detect lamp outage. If not possible with 555 then transistors may be considered.
CIRCUIT – A:
Above are the photos and schematic of the circuit. I have physically tested it. It also works on BC558/BC546.
With bench power supply of 12V-2A and load connected at pin (L) and (-), following is the behavior:
· No load, no oscillation
· Pin (L) and (-) shorted, very fast oscillation (relay sounds)
· Load 1 – 1.5K, normal oscillation (about 1.4Hz)
· Load increases, oscillation slows
· Load decreases, oscillation decreases
When using a car battery and 3 x 27W bulbs in parallel the circuit oscillates normally. Even, if a bulb is removed the frequency is unchanged. This means, this circuit does not detect lamp outage. However, the behavior of the circuit with a bench setup may give you some clue to my objective.
CIRCUIT - B
Yesterday, I came across this circuit which has a relay to detect load. I have not yet tested it. I hope this circuit might also help us. Maybe we can replace the relay with a transistor.
Thanks for your help.
Best regards, Abu-Hafss
IC 555 based car turn signal indicator with pilot warning lamp:
The required circuit design which is shown below may be understood with the following points:
The IC 555 section is wired in the normal astable multivibrator whose pulse rate at pin## can be adjusted with the help of the given 100K pot.
The two NPN transistors function as current sensor, and IC 555 reset controller.
When power is switched ON, the N/C contacts of the relay connect the turn signal lamps with the 12V supply.
The lamps light up and in the process draw the required amount of current via the Rx resistor.
The above current develops some voltage across Rx which triggers the left BC547 transistor and switches OFF the right BC547 transistor.
The above action resets the IC 555 so that it starts pulsing the relay and the connected lamps.
The LED at its N/O contacts also starts blinking in accordance indicating the correct presence of the lamps at the front and the rear side of the car.
Rx value must be selected such that it develops just sufficient voltage across it to trigger the transistor in response to current consumed by two lamps at the specified rates.
In case even one of the lamps malfunction, the voltage across Rx then wouldn't be high enough to trigger the transistor.
This situation would keep the entire circuit frozen, also keeping the warning LED shut off, providing the necessary malfunction indications to the driver.
Abu-Hafss says
I have tried this set-up but not working.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20969135/555%20astable%20RTL.gif
Swagatam says
you can try using CMOS switches from IC 4066, it should work.
Abu-Hafss says
Here is the circuit
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20969135/555%20astable.gif
Abu-Hafss says
Hi Swagatam
In a 555 astable circuit, if a same valued resistor is connected in parallel with R2 the frequency is doubled.
In the attached circuit, I want to connect RTL NOT gate across A and B such that:
a) when there is pulse at the base, A and B remains open hence value of R2 = 5M
b) when there is no pulse at the base, A and B gets short hence value of R2 becomes 2.5M
Could you please help me how to manage the connections.
Abu-Hafss says
Hi Swagatam
Thanks for your help. However, due to malfunction of just one bulb the entire circuit should not be frozen otherwise the driver can be deceived that the flasher is out of order.
Swagatam says
Hi Abu-Hafss,
I think the sensor connection should be removed from the 555 reset point and it should be integrated with another circuit for the required indications. That would keep the 555 stage functioning under all conditions and the other circuit would be only responsible for the malfunction indications.
Abu-Hafss says
Hi Swagatam
First of all, please spare time to increase the headings of your so that it is easy to find some particular old posts. I understand it is time consuming but, it will quite helpful. It took me quite some time to locate this post. You can also increase one heading "Automotive projects".
Ok, now here is the circuit which I designed for the car signal flasher with bulb outage detection function.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20969135/Flasher.gif
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20969135/Flasher%20Circuit%20description.pdf
I had completed this design long time ago but, forgot to report you Ustaad jee.
Abu-Hafss says
Actually, I wanted to use a single IC for the circuit preferably LM324. Two op-amps for the lamp outage detection and one for astable oscillator. However, I faced a drawback.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20969135/Op%20Amp%20Astable.gif
Here is the sq. wave oscillator circuit with an op-amp, frequency 1.4Hz. But as you can see in the simulation, the oscillation starts after about 6.5s. Is there any way to avoid that?
Swagatam says
Hi Abu-Hafss,
Great idea! This will surely work. I'll post it in my blog if you don't mind Mastermindji.
Thanks for this idea!
Swagatam says
I'll check the opamp design and try to solve it, if possible…
Swagatam says
Hi Abu-Hafss,
please try simulating the Fig29 "square wave oscilltor" shown the following datasheet of LM324, I am interested to see the simulation results:
www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm124-n.pdf
Abu-Hafss says
Hi Swagatam
Thanks, your appreciation is really like an award for me 😉
You may post it in your blog.
The configuration of my op-amp oscillator is almost same as the one shown in figure 29. The only difference is that my design has extra resistor R4, which if removed does not result any change in the output.
Swagatam says
It's my pleasure Abu-Hafss,
In your circuit it could be because of the large value capacitor, not sure though? Otherwise your simulator could be giving wrongs results because any astable circuit may it be using an opamp or any other similar device will never produce an initial delay when switched ON.