Converting water into free HHO fuel gas can be extremely inefficient if ordinary means are employed for the involved electrolysis of water. In this post we try to investigate a circuit design which might be capable of extracting this gas from water using minimum energy and with high efficiency.
Technical Specifications
I want to use this pwm motor controller circuit to control hydrogen on demand production of a hho cell on a test generator.
Hho gas boosting on cars engines might also be tested so I want to use a standard pwm circuit that will be able to test hho production for both small & bigger engines.
Would it be advisable to go from start & use for instance a higher current 12V 55Amp Mosfet Transistor plus more protection on the load side? What do you suggest?
Then last but not least, are you aware or knowledgeable about producing hho gas by making use of a resonant frequency circuit to create harmonic resonance or oscillation by making use of a 555 timer chip & a variable pot in the circuit to set the frequency of the circuit on the water's natural frequency in the hho cell that acts as a water cap & disassociate the water molecules into a hydrogen & oxygen gas mixture without making use of any electrolyte in the hho cell for conduction. Or if you know a circuit that works well in this respect could you please let me know were I can find it.
Thank you for your valued electronic knowledge & unselfish input we all really honor you for it. Best Regards Daan
Video Clipping:
The Design
You might be familiar regarding how a Stanley Meyer's fuel cell apparatus works and how it is able to generate HHO gas using minimum consumption.
According to the theory suggested by Stanley Meyer (inventor of the HHO gas generator circuit), his apparatus could be used for generating HHO gas much efficiently such that the power used for the generation could be much less than the power produced while igniting the gas and for transforming the results into a particular desired mechanical action.
The above statement blatantly contradicts the standard laws of thermodynamics which says that no energy conversion from one form to the another can exceed the original form, in fact the transformed energy will be always less than the original energy source.
However the scientist seems to have proofs that actually confirm his statement regarding his invention's overunity output capability.
Like most of you I too personally have a great respect for the laws of thermodynamics and would most probably stick to these and have little faith on such hollow statements made by many researchers, regardless of what proof they are able to submit, these could be manipulated or faked in many hidden techniques, who knows.
Having said that, it's always a great fun to actually analyze, investigate and test the validity of such claims and figure out if these had any traces of truth, after all a scientific law can be beaten only by another scientific law which may be more equipped than the traditional counterpart.
HHO through Electrolysis
Now as far as the generation of HHO gas is concerned, we all know about the basics that it can simply be produced through an electrolysis of water, and the generated gas will have the property of being hugely inflammable and capable of generating energy in the form of an explosion when ignited externally.
We also know that an electrolysis of water can be conducted by applying a potential difference (voltage) inside a water content by inserting two electrodes connected with an external battery or DC power source. The process would induce an electrolysis effect inside the water generating oxygen and hydrogen over the two dipped electrodes.
Finally the generated oxygen hydrogen gas together can be passed through pipes appropriately terminated from the electrolysis vessel into another chamber for the collection.
The collected gas then can be used for executing a mechanical action through an external fire ignition. For example this gas is normally and popularly used for enhancing automobile engines by feeding it into the combustion chamber through the air intake pipe for improving the engines RPM efficiency by about 30% or even more.
Law of Thermodynamics
However the contradiction and doubts regarding the concept start arising when we study the law of thermodynamics which simply rejects the above possibility because according to the law, the energy required for the electrolysis would be much higher than the energy obtained through the HHO gas ignition.
This means that, if suppose for example the electrolysis procedure requires a potential difference of 12V at 5amp current, the consumption could be calculated to be around 12 x 5 = 60 watts, and when the resultant gas from the system is ignited it wouldn't yield an equivalent power of 60 watts rather perhaps only a fraction of that, at around 20 watts or 40 watts.
Stanley Meyer Concept
However, according to Stanley Meyer, his HHO fuel cell apparatus relied on an innovative theory that had the capability of bypassing the thermodynamic barrier without conflicting any of the rules.
His innovative idea employed the resonance technique for breaking the H2O bond during the electrolysis process. The electronic circuit (quite low tech compared to the ones that we have today) which was used for the electrolysis was designed to force the water molecules to oscillate at their resonating frequency and break apart into HHO gas.
This technique allowed the need of minimum energy (ampere) for the generation of the HHO gas thereby yielding much higher ratio of equivalent energy release during the ignition of the HHO gas.
The Resonance Effect
However, a wise analyst and researcher was quick to understand the technique used by Stanley Meyer, and after checking the circuit carefully he completely ruled out of any resonance effect in the process, according to him the word "resonance" was used by Stanley just to mislead the masses so that the actual concept or theory of his system could remain concealed and confusing.
I appreciate the above revelation and agree with the fact that there's no resonance effect required or was used by the most efficient of the HHO fuel cells invented so far.
The secret being simply in the introduction of a high voltage into water through the electrodes..and this does not necessarily need to oscillate, rather a simple DC boosted to huge degrees is required for initiating the high quantities HHO generation.
How to Generate HHO Gas Efficiently
The following simple circuit can be used for breaking water into HHO gas in large quantities using minimal current for the results.
When it comes to the generation of high voltages, nothing can be easier than using a CDI transformer, as may be witnessed in the above diagram.
Using CDI Voltage
Basically it's a CDI circuit which is supposed to be used in automobiles for enhancing their performances, I have discussed it elaborately in one of my previous article how to make an enhanced CDI, you can go through the posting for a better understanding of the design.
The same idea has been employed for the proposed HHO gas generation with maximum efficiency.
How it Works
Let's try to understand how the circuit works and is able to generate massive voltages for splitting the water into HHO gas.
The circuit can be divided into 3 basic stages: the IC 555 astable stage, a step-up transformer stage and a capacitive discharge stage using an automobile CDI transformer.
When power is switched ON, the IC 555 begins oscillating and a corresponding frequency is generating at its pin3 which is used for switching the connected transistor TIP122.
This transistor being rigged with a step up transformer, begins pumping power into the primary winding at the applied rate, which is appropriately stepped up to 220V across the secondary winding of the trafo.
This 220V stepped up voltage is used as the feed voltage for the CDI, but is implemented by first storing it inside a capacitor, and once the capacitor voltage touches the minimum specified threshold limit, it's fired across the CDI primary winding using a switching SCR circuit
The dumped 220V inside the primary of the CDI coil is treated and boosted to a massive 20,000 volts or above by the CDI coil and terminated out through the shown high tension cable.
The 100k pot associated with the IC 555 can be used for regulating the firing timing of the capacitor which in turn determines how much current may be delivered at the output of the CDI transformer.
The output from the CDI coil can now be introduced inside the water for the electrolysis process and for the the HHO generation.
A simple experimental set up for the same may be seen in the following diagram:
HHO Generator Setup
In the above HHO gas generator set up, we can see two identical vessels, which should be made up of plastic, the left hand side vessel can be seen consisting of two parallel hollow stainless steel tubes and two stainless steel rods inserted within these hollow tubes.
The two tubes are electrically connected with each other and so are the rods but the tube and rods must strictly not touch each other.
Here the rods and the tubes become the two electrodes, immersed inside the water filled vessel.
The lid of this vessel have two terminals for integrating the immersed electrodes to the high voltage from the high voltage generator circuit as explained in the earlier section of this post.
When the high voltage from the circuit is switched ON, the water trapped inside the tubes (between the internal walls of the tubes and the rods) are rapidly electrolyzed with the high voltage and converted into HHO gas at an astonishing speed.
However this gas generated inside the left vessel needs to be transported to some external vessel for the intended usage.
This is done through a connecting tube across the other vessel on the right.
The collector vessel on the right also has water filled in it so that the gas can be bubbled out into the chamber, but only while it's being sucked out and used by the external combustion system. This set up is important for preventing accidental explosions and/or fire inside the collector vessel
The above procedures in conjunction with the high voltage can be assumed to be capable of generating high amounts of ready to use HHO gas efficiently, producing an output that could be 200 times higher than the consumed input input power.
In the upcoming post we'll learn how the same set up can be used in automobile ignition systems for enhancing fuel efficiency by upto 40%
UPDATE:
If you feel that the above explained CDI coil method is too complex then instead you can use a simple inverter circuit for the intended results. Make sure to use a 6-0-6V/220V 5 amp transformer for an effective conversion.
Simply Immerse the transformer output wires in water through a bridge rectifier, quite like this
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Is there any video for this application?
And what is the expected quantity of hho
for this article I do not have a video, I may upload it soon, for the time being you can refer to the following similar concept which has a video:
https://www.homemade-circuits.com/how-to-generate-pure-oxygen-and/
Thanks a lot for reply me.
Yes , high tension cable make about 1cm arcing with ground wire. Very nice spark. Better than my motorbike spark. I am using 1 amp step up transformer. When the electrode put in tap water nothing happen. Do I mixed little baking soda ?? I am now using stainless steel plate
Thanks a lot
did you also put the negative electrode, you must put the high tension wire and also the negative electrode in water which must be connected with the negative line of the circuit?
baking soda is not required, no external agent is required for this electrolysis.
Dear sir,
I am trying to make hho generator according to your design. Before I connect to hho cell, I checked it to spark plug, Spark coming. I used for hho cee stainless steel plate 10 pcs & distance from each other about 3mm. I put it to water then I connect high voltage cable & ground cable. Start power, but no any result. Nothing to see. Should I change the distance of steel plate ???? Please sir help me about that
Thanks a lot
Dear Hasan, is your high tension wire generating the arcing sparks when brought near the negative line of the circuit?
Alternatively you can entirely remove the SCR section along with the ignition coil, and simply use the transformer secondary 220V voltage as the electrode input.
Make sure the trafo is rated at minimum 0-12V/2 amps
Swag,
I am building your hho generator using chi coil. Why is there a connection from emitter of tip122 to 12v side of stepup transformer to end of 220v side of transformer? My 12v primary coil is drawing too much current. What do you suggest?
Hi Perry, the connection is to provide the ground reference to the SCR, because the SCR is getting its trigger from the IC 555, therefore the ground of the SCR should be in common with the IC 555 ground or the DC ground.
Just try disconnecting the base of the TIP122 from the circuit and check the current consumption, if it stops then the current consumption is legitimate and is happening due to the trafo primary consumption, the trafo primary could be rated at higher amps, in that case you can try using a smaller trafo and check the results, or alternatively try redusing the PWM of the IC by altering the 100k pot adjustments….
Thanks Swag for your response. I understand. But why is ground connected to 220v winding?
Thanks Perry, the 220V will not have any affect on the DC side, the specific 220 side line is connected because that line is also connected with the CDI and the SCR ground terminals, which are the only relevant factors here…
Thanks a lot Sir. But, how can I modify the above circuit to be able to run 12V-24VDC at 1.5A-15Amps, pls I need your help sir.
You can remove the entire CDI section, and use the output from 0-12V/220V transformer for the electrolysis of water
sir, I want to replace motorcycle CDI with GEN. CDI will it work perfectly.
akande, if the voltage specs of the GEN CDI is rated at 220V and 12V for the ignition coil trigger and DC trigger then you can use it.
can i use it as substitute for LPG
you can, but HHO is highly inflammable, more than LPG and cause hazardous results if not done in a controlled manner.
Swagatam
Do you have a parts list for your hho cdi generator? Do you know ayone who has done a pcb design that wpuld share it?
Thanks
Perry, if you click the diagram you will be able to see an enlarged view of it, after that you can just copy down the parts and show it to parts dealer…all the resistors are 1/4 watt rated…remaining all are also standard arts.
for the PCB you can get in touch with a PCB designer or simply try the prototype over a strip board first.
Swagatam,
I am interested in building your house production circuit. Do you have a PC board for circuit? Or a photo of circuit board that I can use.
Thanks
Hi Perry, sorry I do not have a PCB design for this at the moment…
Ok, I get it, I've sort out my mistakes anyaway. Thank you sir.
And one more question sir, after I had finished soldering the component together (without CDI) I made a test for the VDC out, it's about (1148VDC). Sir, do you think that is normal or some errors need to be corrected. And thanks a lot for quick response sir, you are the best.
Tun, which circuit did you build? and what supply voltage are you using?…but anyway without the coil getting 1kv looks incorrect…
Sir, I wanna ask you few questions, besides, at first, i need you to make a small correction on every single comment on every circuit that keep flooding my gmail (inbox) back to newly uploaded circuit thx. Anyway, back to my previous question above, i want to ask if a "flyback transformer" can used in place of CDI. I really appreciate hardwork, thank you sir.
Tun, a ferrite cored flyback transformer will require an external circuit for generating the sparks…it probably won't work well with the normal pick coil trigger frequency…
You are getting the comment notifications because you subscribed for it…you simply have to unsubscribe it to stop it…
We can throw out over unity perpetual motion machines and claims by ignorant people. The energy out will always be less than the energy going in. But with an engine that has a diesel or gasoline as its primary file, the high flame speed of hydrogen can help the primary fuel burn more completely during an engines power stroke, and result in more power and higher MPG. Again this is not over unity. Rather it is just about improving the efficiency of the primary fuel. In other words if an ICE ( internal combustion engine) starts off at 18% efficient, then if a more compete burn increases the ICE to 22% efficient, that does not violate the second law of thermodynamics meaning your not getting more energy out then is being put in.
Using certain HHO generators I helped design and test on a certain city buses showed on average a 24% increase in fuel economy over the same routes. The biggest issue though was plate degradation requiring expensive rebuild.
That project ended, but I never got around to testing the amount of plate degradation and graph it according to current density. to plate area. There might be a sweet spot between production, plate area, current levels, efficiency of and production levels that would make it viable for transportation.
Graphite plates are supposed to be better than metal plates as far as enduring the conditions is concerned, but not sure if they have any other significant drawback.
I have done a lot of testing with electrolysis of water, and there is one thing I can say for certain. It is that high voltage does not produce HHO efficiently. Yes higher voltage produces more but the rate at which it produces heat grows faster.
I can tell you this. Increasing the plate area increases the current drawn. Decreasing the distance between plates increases the current drawn. Increase electrolyte strength increases the current drawn, and when all else being equal resulted in equal efficiency, increased current meant more production. But Increase voltage resulted in lower efficiency.
All volume measurements were adjusted for STP slandered temperature and pressure. No mater how a cell was designed or what electrolyte I used, at about 12.5v between plates, I found the efficiency was just about 1 milliliter of Hydroxy gas (2 H2 and 1 O2) was produced per minute per watt. Doubling the voltage to 25V roughly doubled production, but as voltage was doubled, current was also roughly doubled and power consumed was now roughly 4 times that which was used at 12.5v, thus reducing efficiency to about 0.5 milliliters of hydroxy gas per minute per watt. Sure I was able to double production but I was wasting so much extra energy doing nothing more than generating heat that forced me to requiring expensive cooling system, so I went the other way and tried lower voltages.
Connecting two cells in series with each other split 12.5v between the two cells gave me 6.25v between two plates in each cell. Voltage was now half and current was also roughly half making power consumption drop by almost 1/4, bringing the efficiency close to 1.9 milliliters of Hydroxy gas per minute per watt. Encouraged by the results with less energy heating the water and more going to splitting water, I split 12.5v across 4 electrolysis cells with about 3.13v per cell. The efficiency almost doubled again to 3.6 MMW. Graphing MMW to voltage indicated MMW was non linear to voltage, and hinted that a maximum MMW was achievable at a low but positive non zero voltage. It turns out that the lowest voltage water will electrolysis at is 1.23V across two plates in a cell.
Thank you for expressing your opinion, however I still believe that voltage is the crucial parameter, without which the plate area or the distance would make no difference.
Please remember that we don't want to use an electrolyte here, because using any kind foreign catalyst could simply spoil the actual purpose of the experiment.
We are interested to break water into HHO through brute force, and that's why we need higher voltages to enforce this action.
A simple experiment will prove how the voltage affects the electrolysis of pure water.
try electrolysis with a 12V DC on pure water, then try 310V DC with the same set up and you will be able to witness the difference.
At 310V DC the bubbles will be at least 50 times more denser than with a 12V supply.
Increasing voltage will increase current, and that's exactly why we want so that the electric power increases and helps to break the H2O bond more effectively.
with pure water the rate of HHO generation will be proportional to the rate of increase of voltage…according to me
I hav one circuit diagram Its 14amps pwm circuit I send to ur mail id I tried in bread board BT output Not getting correct output
I'll check it soon and reply….
Helo swagatam I was send a mail to u r mail id Its 14amps pwm circuit BT result Is Not comming. Pls check nd revert me pls
hello suman, please repeat your question here I will try to help
Hi swagatham I hav pwm circuit Its 14amps output I tried in bread board BT M Not getting correct out put I send a mail to ur id PLZ check the Ckt nd do help me
Hi swagatham i post thr pls check and help me bt i send a mail circuit diagram to u r mail
OK, i connected the setup to a single pair of 5 inch stainless steel pipe just for testing and there was no visible sign of gas production. Why is that? Maybe the pipes need to be conditioned first.
Moreover, after some minutes of operation the transformer became hot. How do i deal with the hot transformer?
when you bring the electrodes at a distance of 1cm are the sparks arcing across the electrodes??
this is the basic thing that will need to be confirmed first before immersing it in water?
Do you need to connect a high voltage diode to the high voltage out into the HHO cell?
No why??…. there's no diode shown in the diagram??
You are right. I changed the transformer to a smaller one and the consumption decreased to 1.5 amps then i used the smallest transformer with me and the current went down to 0.85 amps. so thanks a lot.
Although i have not tested this setup with HHO cell yet but dont you think a tangible current is needed to increase gas production because in my earlier experiments i used a 12v car relay, a spark module to drive a microwave transformer the HHO cell containing tap water consumed 230 milliamps but the gas production was negligible then i replaced the MOT with a car ignition coil,the current draw increased to 2.7 amps and there was a considerable increase in gas production. so what is the place of current in all of these?
since the voltage is very high, the current can be low, even a 100mA would be enough to generate good amount of HHO, but make sure the electrodes have widest possible surface area, you can try using a mesh type plate network for the electrodes…I have explained it in the other article.
You know i tuned the 100K pot to the maximum which increased the frequency. But what do you think should be the ideal amperage so that i can use it as a guide in fine tuning the setup?
the current consumption will primarily depend on the transformer current specification, reduce the transformer current specification to lower value….use a 1 amp transformer for lowering the consumption…
I built this circuit today. I connected the 555 circuit through the small transformer to an off the shelf bajaj motorcycle CDI box and it worked. The current draw is 2.7 amps. I am really glad it worked because i never wanted to buid a seperate CDI circuit. I will connect it to the HHO cell tomorrow. Thanks a lot.
I am glad it worked, but 2.7 amp is too high, something may be not right in your design…
Thanks a lot for this explanation. My question is have you built , tested and confirmed that this circuit works? Can you explain how the timing of the firing capacitor is achieved with the circuit? Can I replace the CDI circuit with an off the shelf or readymade CDI box?
You can use the voltage from your existing CDI of your motorcycle for generating the HHO gas, just make sure you use a mesh type electrode made os graphite for maximum efficiency.
you can read more here
https://homemade-circuits.com/2015/05/how-to-use-hho-fuel-cell-in-automobiles.html
this has not been confirmed by me practically
I appreciate your response. Is it possible to generate the HHO using the 555 circuit and CDI ignition without connecting it to motorcycle or any automobile?
yes it's possible
Thanks a lot for this explanation.I have two questions: 1. have you built and tested this circuit and confirmed it works? 2. I love the CDI idea. I got a ready made CDI box which is supposed to work with the magneto of a motorcycle. If i connect the 555 timer and transformer portion of the circuit above to the readymade CDI will they work together?
thank you, sorry I do not have any video link for this experiment
Sir when I connected hho kit in to spark plug but engine going to off why
Sugumar, it could be due to short circuiting of the spark terminals due to wrong wiring by you, make sure to connect the extensions to HHO water only and not to a short circuiting of the two terminals.
Hi swagatam I mail to you plz check it
Hi Suman, I have answered to your mail.
check the waveform across C2 in your diagram…check if its generating triangle waves or not…only then we can troubleshoot the design further on…
Can you pls provide ur mail I'd again I vl farword to you swagatam
admin @ homemade-circuits.com
Swagatam I have pwm circuit 30amps BT it's nt getting outputi want to share circuit diagram for u if any changes require in parts pls tele hw can I share circuit diagram for u
Hi Suman, you can send to my email, I'll pssible I'll try to suggest a solution.
admin (@) homemade-circuits.com
Hii swagatam I send a mail circuit diagram to ur mail ID plz check nd conform it pls help I vl wait for your revert mail
Hi Suman, I did not get any email from you.
Thanks a lot for your response.
Dear sir,
The schematic shown is tested by you personally?
Please do reply
Dear Jeyakumar, it is tested but it's extremely dangerous…not recommended for newcomers ….do it at your own risk if you are a newcomer in the field
Sir If you dont mind please define the current rate of the step up tranformer in this circuit.
Thanks in advance
you can use a 500mA or a 1amp transformer
Thanks a ton sir
thanks to u swagatam ji and i have a system speakers 5.1 creavtive so i want to do wire less speaker for that with the connecting bluetooth so if any bluetooth 5.1 home theater circuit diagram with you if u have please share to me sir
thanks Suman, if it's possible for me, I'll try to design and update the idea in my website soon…
hi swagtam
i need a pwm circuit for hho its should be 12-24vdc input and output amps wil be 30amps with adjustable variable using with ic555 and mosfet can u send a circuit diagram with componets values plsss… can u help me
Hi Suman,
you can try the following circuit for your application
https://homemade-circuits.com/2012/05/make-this-pwm-based-dc-motor-speed.html
hi sir i have a circuit pwm upto 30amp output but in that mosfet and diode is not available in the market N-type mosfet p80nf5 and diode Byw96 series is not available , so can u tel me please other than this series what type of series can i use can u help me for this sir
Hi Suman, you can try IRF540
sir what about diode byw96
use only 1N4007 diodes which are easier to acquire
Hi Swagtam,
Excellent project with more explanations.
I was looking for this project.
Expecting continuation soon.
Thanks Sharaf,
the continuation has been updated, please check out the next post.
The HHO cells might be used with a small stationary engines like generators, lawn movers etc. because they have fixed rate of consumption of fuel.
However, automobiles are subject to variable rate of consumption of the fuel depending upon the RPM of the vehicle. As such, a control circuit is required which will regulate the supply of HHO gas to the engine depending upon its RPM. Without it, a car standing at a signal with engine running at idle and the same car running at 2000RPM will have same rate of supply of HHO gas! And I think it could be dangerous to have excess supply of the gas when engine is running at idle.
yes that's correct, we can leave that part for the automobile engineers to decide how they would want to make it technically correct and safer….presently my efforts are to make the concept truly feasible and efficient and not just a scam like many have done so far.
I appreciate your efforts, Swagatam. 🙂
Swagatam
The first part of the request from Mr. Daan is actually addressing the above issue. His idea was to use PWM for producing the gas on demand.
I think he got confused, the required object was to "supply" the gas on demand. Production of the gas is one issue and supplying of the produced/stored gas in a controlled manner is another issue. Regulating the production of the gas by any means cannot regulate the supply to the engine.
Abu-Hafss, the PWMs can be made to adjust for controlling the production of the gas, therefore if a circuit is designed which can respond to the vehicles RPM signals and auto adjust the pulse width in accordance with it then the issue could be simply solved.
That means at higher RPMs the circuit would respond to the feedbacks from the engine RPMs and adjust the PWMs to produce wider pulses (more current) and vice versa.
But the main priorty for achieving a "gas on demand" is to make a generator that may be capable of generating HHO at will quickly and at relatively larger quantities
…auto adjusting the PWMs in response to the engine feedback is not a big deal, but making an HHO generator which can manufacture the gas at an efficient rate is what all are struggling with.
You go it perfectly. We exactly have no idea of the affects of PWM on the production of the gas. Hence, I think it would be better to store the gas in a small reservoir and then supplied on demand. But I haven't seen any kit with a cylinder or something similar. Maybe, because it will become more complex or some other technical drawback.
PWMs will have a direct impact on the production of the gas, wider PWMs will allow more gas to be generated and conversely narrower PWMs will slow down the process.
Storing HHO gas in tanks is highly risky that's the reason why an on demand HHO gas concept was proposed and thought to be more appropriate and safe.
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